Tanker Loads, Prospecting, and Authority Aging | Final Mile 107

Nate Cross & Ben Kowalski answer your freight brokering questions and discuss:

💰 Bulk Tanker Profitability – Which pays more for dedicated contracts: food-grade or non-hazmat chemical tankers? We break down the pros, cons, and market factors so you can chase the best rates.

📧 Email-Only Prospects – Stuck with a shipper who only wants to email? Learn how to engage on their terms while steering the conversation toward a phone call.

🚛 MC Seasoning – Does paying for an MC and insurance without hauling count toward the 6–12 month “seasoned” requirement? Here’s the answer and what to watch out for.

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Chapters

• 0:38 Welcome to The Final Mile
• 1:00 Tanker vs Dry Van Profitability
• 4:28 Converting Email-Only Prospects to Calls
• 11:17 New MC Authority Challenges
• 15:49 Final Thoughts on Persistence

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

All right, welcome back. It's the final mile. We're going to answer your questions. These come to us today from YouTube comments and our Facebook group, but make sure to check out all the other content at Freight360.net, including our Freight Broker Basics course, if you're looking for that educational option, and share us with your friends all that good stuff, and check out the sponsors down below. It will help support the channel.

Speaker 1: 0:41

All right, our first question. This is going to probably go towards uh, towards you more than anything. It's more of a niche that you're involved in, but it's on on bulk, uh, tanker moves. So the question was what pays more for dedicated contracts? This was an owner operator looking to, um, to, you know, figure out where they want to go commodity-wise. I said food-grade or non-hasmat chemical tankers. They said I'm a one-truck flatbed dry van carrier looking to move into bulk. So I guess my first because I'm actually curious myself the profitability of bulk in general versus just a basic dry van. What is the average rates when you were in the bulk world, like what's a rate per mile? And then we'll kind of compare it to uh, um, a standard like dry van so I mean it's they're very different for very different reasons.

Speaker 2: 1:38

So, for instance, I'm just looking at some of the stuff that's like because food grade and non-hasmat chemical actually kind of overlap in a few things. There's lots of chemicals.

Speaker 1: 1:49

You could have a food grade chemical.

Speaker 2: 1:52

Glycerin, for example, is a food it needs to go in a food grade trailer, right, that is certified, but it is also technically a chemical that is non-hasmat, right. So like there's a lot of overlap in some of these and there's also a very difference, very big differences, in equipment. But like, even just looking at some of the rates per mile, like, and you can be at like 350 to 550 a mile, depending- on what lanes which is way above your.

Speaker 1: 2:17

You know your dry van or flatbed it is, but it isn't.

Speaker 2: 2:21

So here's the thing, right, and the thing you need to understand with running these types of lanes is those are typically like a round trip. Yes, and here's why there's not a lot of spot loads available for like day of or even a couple of days in advance, and it's also really hard to line them up because you typically have to get a tank wash in between, which could be anywhere from a couple hours to like. Typically have to get a tank wash in between, which could be anywhere from a couple hours to like overnight leaving to get your tank washed, and if that doesn't get done on schedule, you miss the round trip. So what you end up having to do if you're literally running both sides of the lane I don't know North Carolina to like Houston and back you need like a day or two gap in between them because you got to get the tank washed and get over to your next place. So it's a lot more per mile, but you have a lot more dead time where you're basically needing to get there way early to make sure you make your pickup. So even at 550 a mile, a lot of these are run round trips.

Speaker 2: 3:19

So cut that in half. You're at 225 a mile. Now you got to throw in a tank wash. Maybe your customer pays it, maybe not, but that could be anywhere from 200 to 350. So now all of a sudden you're back to two bucks a mile, like right out of the gate, right. So there are lots of things that really matter. When you're trying to figure out, like when we run tankers, we would always look as like, how much can we earn per week per driver on each piece of equipment. Not necessarily per mile, because when you factor all the dead time in repositioning, getting there, getting back like, the numbers seem super high rate per mile, but when you you figure out what that driver actually earns a week, they don't. They're not as exaggerated between the two, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 3:59

Yeah. So the way, the way I would understand that then is like you know, you look at that rate per mile and if it's roundtrap you cut in half. I guess the benefit to the tanker side is if you can get to a position like that where you're keeping your empty miles as low as possible and you're keeping your. You're keeping your empty miles as low as possible and you're keeping your. Uh, cause, if you look at, let's say, the example you gave and it's like, okay, well, it's cut, you're ended up getting two, 25 a mile and you're like, all right, well, maybe it's two bucks a mile for a drive in, um, but that drive in. Also you have to factor in, like, if they're not doing round trip dedicated stuff, then they're going to be driving empty. You know, deadhead 100 miles here, deadhead 150 miles here, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 4:45

And I like how you pointed out what are my earnings per week? Right, that's, I think, per day per week. All of that is a great way to look at it. I think at the end of the day, the more specialized companies, the niche is very likely there's more potential for higher earnings on it. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to incentivize anybody to operate in that world. But to the original question food grade versus non-hasmetic chemicals? The question may have been asked incorrectly and I'm glad that you were here to answer, because I wouldn't have been able to give that.

Speaker 2: 5:18

Yeah, and I'm even looking at some of my stuff and again, this is from a year and a half ago but like, yeah, I'm seeing everything from like 550 miles, 650 miles. Oh, this customer awarded it for 550 miles, said it was a great rate. But then I kind of look at the lanes they were associated with it and like it was because I was doing a lot of this trying to match up basically backhaul and front hauls with other customers. But then you run into like what becomes even more difficult is in a van. It doesn't matter if it goes in a van, I can pick up whatever you have and pick up whatever Steven has if it goes in a van. But when it's a tanker you might need food grade, you might need a kosher cert. But Steven has a backhaul load and he's like, yeah, great, you have a tanker, but what Steven puts in is going to put in my truck is not allowed before I load you, because then you get into like they're called approved prior load. So basically anytime I'm going to load for you.

Speaker 1: 6:09

How far back do they look?

Speaker 2: 6:11

Three, usually three loads. Now it's a little different for different commodities but like food grade glycerin, which is just one I did a lot of, they're going back three loads for every single one. So if you loaded peanut oil and you have an exclusion for peanut oil, then like I can't match those two lanes up and that's it. You kind of run into the same thing. You run into, like with reefer LTL, like different temperatures being able to put different commodities in the same piece of equipment really does make this a lot different. And like there's just more things to try to determine when you're figuring out how much can I make per week as opposed to just what am I getting per mile? Gotcha All right.

Speaker 1: 6:49

Next question is how do you get an email? Only prospect to take a phone call. So they went on and say, like my this, this person I'm prospecting, will only respond to me via email. I can never seem to get them on the phone. I got a couple of thoughts on this. We probably need more information, but I usually, with anybody, the first time you start to communicate with them, I try to meet them where they're at Right. It's like I've had people that I've talked to that like will just only text me and they'll only text me when they have a question about something, and if I ask them something, they will not respond back. Right, and the same thing can happen via email and then I get friends that are probably like that.

Speaker 2: 7:28

Oh yeah, like there's just people you know that have that type of personality where, like they just won't answer the phone.

Speaker 1: 7:33

The same thing. You could reverse engineer. You could have a customer or someone that like what they what could get accomplished in an email they will always call you about right, and you just have to start. Wherever that relationship is, and if it's strictly just email or if they're strictly just going to call you instead of saying a quick email, that's where you start and then, um, the you know, if someone's calling you too much, you can always try to build out like hey, um, what do you you think about? You know, will X, y and Z be done over email? It's probably the quickest, easiest way to get done. That way I can focus, you know best service for you, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 8:11

Now to get someone to go from email to phone some prospects they're just fishing you for rates and you may never get them on a phone call. They're just fishing you for rates and you may never get them on a phone call. It could be that you know you've got to try to work your way through their phone tree to where someone finally patches you through and you're, like Jim, glad I finally got you on the phone here. I know we've been emailing a lot. I had a couple of questions about that quote request you were sending over. Well, now you got them on the phone, the phone, and that's a.

Speaker 1: 8:42

That's a gatekeeping technique that some prospects will use, because until they get something from you via email, that that's that they like. They don't want to let you through to the phone. So you know it's going to be the same way we teach about getting through gatekeepers and, you know, trying to navigate your way through their phone system, through their directory, to finally get them. Um, what you probably want to do in an email is give them a reason to take time out of their day and hop on a phone with you. Do you have any thoughts on I know it's kind of a generic question, but any thoughts on this? Oh yeah, I do that all the time.

Speaker 2: 9:12

So, like a couple of examples right, like I can't get somebody to answer when I call, I first try a couple of different days of the week and times of the day to see if maybe I catch them at a better time where they maybe answer. Right, then I'm probably going to try to find a reason to make them want to pick up the phone. Like hey, just saw this, had a couple of quick questions, you got 30 seconds. Didn't want to send you a super long email, maybe something to that effect. Right, giving them a reason of like hey, or like hey, I've got some guys lined up, I think might actually be pretty cheap compared to what we've been quoting. But I want to ask you a few things that the drivers asked to see if we can make this work. Right, I'm trying to think what does it look like from their point of view? What would I be willing to talk to somebody about? And then I just started thinking like how can I frame this to make them care enough to give me 30 seconds on the phone, right? So you're trying a bunch of different things to try to get them on the phone.

Speaker 2: 10:08

The other thing is, like I've definitely just had people that just don't talk to anybody. Like I had customers that like just literally won't ever pick up the phone and talk to you. I am trying to find other people in the company to talk to. Then I'm looking who else has that job title that I can pick up the phone and call? Is there somebody in sales I can call and have be transferred over to that person? I'm going to try to call just random phone numbers to get maybe pushed over to that person. I mean, literally I would go through every bag of tricks I could possibly think of to try to start building a relationship with anybody over there, whether it's their manager, their coworker, maybe it's someone that works for them, that is below them, that maybe I can get on the phone. But just keep trying.

Speaker 1: 10:45

Yeah, the whole. The big takeaway is you want to pose it in a way that it gives them an incentive to want to talk to you on the phone. So the examples you gave were great, um, all right. Lastly is about, uh, the age of a authority.

Speaker 1: 10:58

So this is a carrier asking, cause a lot of you know some, some brokers will say hey, we don't work with anybody that's got less than a year authority, et cetera. So the question was if I pay for a new MC and insurance for six to 12 months without hauling anything, will it then count as seasoned for brokers who require it? So my understanding is yes, because as brokers we can't see how many loads they've hauled, but what we can see is how many inspections they've had. So if you didn't meet my criteria for, or if you meet my criteria for 12 months but you've had no inspections, you're throwing up all kinds of other red flags. Because if I'm like he's got a truck, he's been in business for a year, has never been inspected, is he double brokering? What's going on here? That's where my brain would go.

Speaker 1: 11:49

So, technically, yeah, your authority is going to age. My recommendation would just be if you're new, do it the new way that everybody else does. You're going to have to go through build relationships. You're probably not going to get the best lanes or the best pay and freight that's out there. It's the same thing we deal with as brokers when we're new is that we have to take time and build up trust, and with that comes the less profitable business as we're getting started off. What's your take on that?

Speaker 2: 12:14

Yeah, similar. I mean agree with everything you said. What I would also do is start making phone calls immediately and trying to build relationships and just saying, hey, like I'm new, this is what I would like to be able to do. I'd like to be able to build a relationship with you. I know I might not meet your criteria, but if you ever really need help with a load or a lane that comes up and you give me enough time, maybe I can help, Because what you're really trying to do is to get that brokerage to make an exception.

Speaker 2: 12:40

And the easiest way to get them to make an exception is two things getting them to trust you by talking to them and, second of all, being patient enough to where the opportunity happens, where they're going to need to make the exception. Right, it works the same thing with a broker trying to get in with a shipper hey, I know you guys aren't on board any new carriers, but if you ever need help and nobody else can get you a truck, I might be able to give you a hand. Give me a call If I can. Maybe we can work it out and I can't tell you how many customers wave that and on board you immediately because they actually need you to get that truck. The other thing, is.

Speaker 2: 13:11

I would go through new brokers too.

Speaker 1: 13:14

Yeah, that's a good point. One of the things that I've always, like we've done, is like if they're under a year, we have that set as, like you know, it'll flag it as they're a new authority. But you talk to these, you know, you talk to this owner operator and he's like, yeah man, I just drove for 12 years under this other company. I wanted to go start my own shop. It's like you probably got a way better driver on the phone there versus someone who started their business two years ago and passes that 12 month authority rule. So it's all you know relative to the big picture. So, like you said, pick up the phone, call people. But yeah, that is one of the hurdles for anyone that's new as a broker or calling shippers.

Speaker 2: 13:55

Like if I'm a carrier and I really wanted to do that honestly, like I would probably call every shipper local to me and I would go there in person and start introducing myself and I would say, hey, not expecting you guys to need any help right now, not expecting you guys to be able to talk about like running or doing business together. But I'm literally right up the road starting a new trucking company. I've been driving for 12 years with a larger company. There's ever an opportunity where we can talk or you need local runs done last minute. My yard's three miles up the road. Feel free to give me a buzz.

Speaker 2: 14:24

I'd love to be able to connect and I would just do that with everybody. And then I would follow up with all those people two weeks later and then I'd do it again, you know, two weeks after that. And I would just keep doing that over and over because one of them is going to go. Yeah, I have this local lane. That's a pain in the ass that I can't anyone get to cover last minute. And then you'll start getting random phone calls of like, hey, can you go grab this from me this afternoon?

Speaker 1: 14:44

Sure, and again, you've got to be available, you've got to be able to help when they need the help too no-transcript and you know, when I'm delivering to a certain place, like, hey, I'm actually and you may have some sort of restrictive covenant, depends on you know who you're working for. But if I've got FaceTime with this location already, I'm going to be like, hey, I'm actually looking at branching off on my own. You can have those conversations in person ahead of time. So, yeah, cool Good stuff, good questions. Keep them coming our way and we'll keep answering them. Final thoughts Ben.

Speaker 2: 15:32

Whether you believe you can or believe you can't, you're right.