Problem Solving For Freight Brokers | Episode 351

Freight brokerage isn’t just about trucks, rates, and load boards—it’s about solving problems when everything goes sideways.

We break down how asking better questions, simplifying challenges, and testing different approaches can help brokers avoid analysis paralysis and get better results. Along the way, we share real-world examples involving tough loads, carrier sales, credit decisions, new technology, and value-added service.

This is a practical mindset episode for anyone looking to improve at logistics, sales, carrier sourcing, and customer service.

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Transcript

Why Curiosity Beats Overthinking

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Problem solving. Ben, we just wrapped up a I thought was what I thought was a really good discussion about uh just different ways to think creatively and problem solve on our industry. We give a lot of really good examples of things that we've done and seen over the years. Um I think the big takeaway here is you know uh the the best freight brokers don't just find trucks for their customers or find freight for their carriers. Um they solve their problems and they think creatively and they, you know, they have to be flexible in the way that their their mind works and um and really you know creative in how they look at possible solutions. What are your thoughts here?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Yeah, it was a really good episode. Um, and I mean, like this is applicable to whether you're sourcing carriers, finding ways to get customers, trying to deal with issues that you're trying to improve anywhere in whatever you do. I think what we talked about was super applicable. And it's really just like, and we kind of got to this at the end, which is like be curious and ask why. Why whatever problem you're trying to solve, and get to the simplest way you can look at it, and then be creative to think of as many ways as you can to solve it differently, right? And the the thing that I just hit me too was we do this with our show every week. Like we don't have topics planned, we don't have an outline. We literally go like, hey, what is the thing that we think we should talk about? And then we just move through it to get to the end, and like that's literally like almost every episode we've ever done is almost some version of exactly what we just kind of discussed. That was a really good episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yep. All right, good stuff. Let's hop

Quick Intro And Where To Learn

SPEAKER_00 1:36

into it. Welcome back for episode 351 of the Freight 360 podcast. Ben, what's happening uh down in your neck of the woods this week?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Pretty much the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Hoping it rains a little bit more, but pretty much every day is the same as rain last night here in uh in western New York. My my lawn was so dry it was starting to crack, um, which seems to be a common thing up here in the summer months. But anyway, it's summer. We're enjoying it. Um hey, if you're brand new, we got a ton of other content. So go to freight360.net. You've got an entire searchable library there of all of our blogs, full-length podcast, our shorter form content, educational videos, etc. You've got the Freight Broker Basics course if you're looking for the training option there. Um, this episode is also brought to you by Ascend TMS. So if you're looking for a new TMS option, and you know, the the one of the best recommendations we've got for the small to medium sized brokerage is going to be a send. You can get 90 days of their pro version absolutely free. No card required. You just need to have a referral code, which we do have available for you down in the notes. So check that out. Um but uh what do we got uh newswise?

World Cup Demand Shifts Reefer Rates

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Oh, you know what we got newswise? I put this in our newsletter, but this was interesting. I I have if you're watching on YouTube, I'm holding up a copy of Transport Topics, which gets um almost annoyingly sent to me way too often in the mail. Um if you're a TIA member, I believe you get this. And I think I'm the one that registered Freight 360 for TIA, so I get it sent like every week. But it was this really cool article about the World Cup and the impact it had on uh the freight market and the truckload market. So the uh I'll just read this really quick. It's titled No Stoppage Time for Refrigerated Cargo. The world's most watched sporting event has driven demand for temperature-controlled freight such as beer, meat, produce, and prepared foods to stock bars, stores, and stadium kitchens for domestic and international soccer fans. Inbound reefer rates surged 11.4% in the 11 U.S. host cities for the 2026 FIFA World Cup between May 4th and June 22nd, outpacing the broader market by 5.4 percentage points. So that that came from DAT as reported by Transport Topics. So um we always talk about like how little not little, but like regional events can impact the market, like storms and you know, wildfires, stuff like that, um, you know, holidays, but the world cup, the world cup literally drove the reefer market up 11 and change percent. So kind of a fun little factor. I remember um uh I don't know, it's like three or four years ago, Paul and Freight Caviar, they did like a the logistics of Thanksgiving, and I thought it was just like really cool. How do you like actually break down how one event in a year can like surge you know certain markets because of you know the the types of products being consumed? Um we've you know we've seen it with uh there's an article about how avocados and the Super Bowl, like how it drives rates up for everything coming up over the the border from Mexico into Canada. So here you go, the World Cup. Um speaking of World World Cup, did you did you watch any of the final games over the weekend?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

I did not. I watched the British Open on and off. Oh okay, yeah, yeah. That's right. The open. Who won the open anyway? Ryan Fox. Um, this guy kind of came out of nowhere. He was from um New Zealand, I think. And his dad apparently was like a famous rugby player for the All Blacks. Um, and I mean he hold out a really nice putt to win it literally in 18. Very cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Um, well, the World Cup ended on Sunday afternoon. Spain and Argentina played, and Spain won uh one to zero, and that was in um extra time, I think what they call it. I don't know. It was like overtime, basically. I don't I'm not a big soccer guy, so I don't know. I don't I don't know all the terminology, but um yeah, pretty wild. It was a very, very, very well, obviously a very low scoring game. It was one to zero. So but yeah, good stuff, man. Um we're just around the corner from the NFL season starting.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

So did you hear about the Giants running back?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

I got my building. The Giants.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

The Giants running back, the Giants running back that uh apparently was at a WWE event and tried to land a backflip.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, yeah. I I didn't see like the actual the actual video. I saw like a a reel that was like uh you know his coach is probably losing his mind right now because he does like a backflip and then falls after he's like legitimately broke his body last year. So yeah, Cam Scadaboo. I think uh I think they'll I mean if he can stay healthy, man, that that could be a fun, fun team to watch this year. So who knows? Yeah. Um they have the they have the uh new quarterback Netflix series came out too, which is fun. Fun to watch. If you haven't checked it out, it's all about um this season is all about like first round draft picks. So it's like uh Baker Mayfield, um and it's got Cam Ward from the Titans. But what I think is really cool is they have Joe Flacco, who's literally 40 years old and has played for like, I don't know, every team. Um actually he's played, he has now played for every team in your uh Steelers division except for the Steelers. Because he won the Super Bowl with Baltimore. Um, and then he was starting last year in Cleveland, got traded to Cincinnati in the middle of the year until uh Joe Burrow got healthy. So yeah. Anyway, that's sports. So we had the open, we had uh the World Cup, and uh all right. News. I guess we hit on the World Cup.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

But what else?

Lettuce Outbreak And Supply Chain Risk

SPEAKER_01 8:11

There was um there's a huge issue with lettuce, like 27,000 people or something. Um, that huge outbreak that first was announced it might have been Taylor Farms, then it was rescinded over the weekend, so then maybe it wasn't. But I've read it's been traced to like bag lettuce potentially, or for sure Taco Bell in some states, definitely in Michigan, but it's brutal from what I've read. Like it is not just like a couple days of you being sick, it's like a week or two.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

And it has like so I thought Taylor Farms was the company that was linked to it, is it not?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

All I the what what I read on Monday or Saturday it was, and then I read on Monday the FDA said we're not sure it might have been a false positive, and now we don't know. So like I don't know if it was actually confirmed or they don't know, or they who knows, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Okay, so if I look right now, it says FDA has FDI FDA links cyclo cyclos cyclospora outbreak to Taylor Farms lettuce. Interesting. Wild. This happened like five years ago with Romaine out of California, if you remember. There was some kind of issue, and they recalled a ton of Romaine, and you just couldn't get Romain anywhere. So anyway, interesting. Interesting. All right, what do you got for a uh topic today, Ben?

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Okay, the topic we're gonna cover is like problem solving and why it's probably the most important skill set you will develop to have a successful career in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Um it's not even just our industry, too. I want to say this like overall. If I think about anyone, like if I I'm gonna overgeneralize this, so um, give me some grace here, but whenever I like think about people and I'm like, yeah, she's smart or he's smart, usually what it what it really means is like they can figure things out, right? Aka, they can problem solve, right? Having the ability to like analyze a situation, do some homework and some research, and find a potential solution and implement it, versus someone who is like given a set of instructions and simply follows it to a T, right? Absolutely. Never challenging the boundaries of what they're told to do.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

So two interesting things since last week that made me think about this more was one in the perplexity and uh interview on Joe Rogan we talked a little bit about. And they were talking about like what will be the

Problem Solving As A Career Skill

SPEAKER_01 11:53

most valuable skill sets in a new economy where you kind of have every answer right at your fingertips. And what they really talked about was like problem solving, right? Creativity and being able to ask good questions. And they were also talking about like, you know, previously, the way we thought of intelligence and for the past 100 years was like you could memorize things and regurgitate answers. But like if you're really good at that, that doesn't necessarily mean like you can apply it. It might just mean you're really good at memorizing things, which isn't not helpful, but when you don't need to memorize things and you can ask the question and get the answer, it's like the library on steroids where you can go find answers very quickly. You don't need to memorize everything in every book in that entire library to be able to move forward with things, right? And there was an interesting, call it like, I don't know if it's like an analogy, but a similar thing I was reading and um was reading a lot of like ancient Buddhism stuff and Hinduism, and both of them talk about the same thing in more of like a spiritual context, where they'll talk about people in like thousands of years ago and hundreds of years ago, where like, well, you have somebody that can memorize all of the religious texts, but they don't apply any of them, and they don't actually can translate them into practical understanding. And there's all of these stories about whether it's Buddha or um Krishna or whatever deity is in one of these stories that talks to like a very high-up priest and says, like, you're kind of missing the end point of enlightenment. You can repeat everything in all of these ancient texts, but like you're not able to apply it to your life or to your teachings to help other people, where this person can't repeat any of it, but is understanding the lessons, right? As opposed to regurgitating the text. And it made me think about like when I came into logistics, I very much had a similar issue. I've talked about this a lot. It's like paralysis analysis. But when I was really starting to like grow a book of business, I remember I spent so much energy trying to predict and analyze where the next problem would come. And I was spending so much work trying to like go, well, like, oh, this is most likely to go wrong here. Let's do this. And it's not that that wasn't helpful. I was spending way more energy doing that than just kind of focusing on what was happening. And to me, I remember when Jason, who I worked for at the time, sat me down. He goes, Ben, like, you're trying really hard. But like, here's the thing in our industry, like, things are gonna go wrong. Like, that is an absolute given. Like everybody realizes that once you've been in it for like at least a handful of months. I'm like, yeah, correct. That's why I'm trying so hard to figure out where they're gonna go wrong. He goes, No, like you're trying to predict the future. That's an impossible task. What you want to develop is your confidence in your ability to solve whatever comes up because you're never gonna know where it'll come up. You'll think it'll be here, it'll be over here. It's not helpful to keep trying to guess. It's more helpful to just keep developing the skill set and confidence that, like, hey, something's gonna go wrong. I'm I'm certain of that. I don't know when or where, but I know whatever it is, I will be able to think through this in a way that I can solve it. He's like, that's how you end up with a longer-term career in this industry because like you're just gonna exhaust yourself, which ironically was very similar to the stuff I was reading in some of those old texts where they're like, you spend all of your energy trying to predict and worry about the future or the past, neither of what you live in. You really want to spend your time being present, being aware of what's happening. And as things come up, you adapt, navigate through it, try to boil it down into something simple, and you iterate until you work through the solution. You don't know what it is because you don't know what the problem is. You can't guess your way through it, and it hasn't happened

Stop Predicting And Build Confidence

SPEAKER_01 15:40

yet. So you can't solve next week's problem today, you can't solve next year's problem today. What you can do is be aware of what's going on right now, live in that place, and as things come up, develop the skill set of adapting as those things come up and then iterating to work through them to a solution.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Give me the um, give me the Henry Ford quote you gave earlier off air.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Oh, it was the um the quote where he was asked um, you know, late long after he's successful, like because people kept saying, Well, you should ask your customers, they'll tell you what you should what their problems are, and that's how you find what you should build that people will want. He went, if I had listened to my customers, they would have asked me for a faster horse and a longer buggy whip. But instead, I gave them a car. And I'm like, to me, it always resonates because it's like you're worrying and thinking about what everyone else is complaining about or did, and not really thinking about like what would be helpful that maybe doesn't exist or isn't being done now. Like that's really where innovation happens. But that's literally our job all day as a freight broker. Like, you just don't know where things are gonna go wrong. You don't know how you're gonna reach this guy you want to do business with, you don't know where you're gonna find the carrier. You just keep iterating and doing different things until you actually find that solution.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah, I mean, you think about like um some of the great minds of of history and their ability to solve problems and you know, create new things, like Einstein with the theory of relativity and Isaac Newton with calculus motion, um, Da Vinci, he created like was that the concept of like the flying machine or the flying man or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Even in a helicopter, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Um, Edison with practical um electrical lighting, Elon Musk, right? The world's richest man today with electric vehicles, reusable rockets. Um if you apply that down to our industry, like it it looks very different today, the way that we do things versus you know, 10 or 15 years ago. The premise and concept of what a freight broker is and does still maintains the same. The same as like you talk about Henry Ford and transportation, like it's still the ability to move people from one place to another, but the way in which we do that has evolved, right? You go from a horse and buggy to a car. Um sourcing capacity for for you know shippers is still what we do, but it happens in a very different way, and there's a lot of different things that we need to consider while doing our job now. So I think one of the biggest thing, what do you got?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

The other one I was gonna say, and I just read this like yesterday. I had never heard this, but I came across something that was like misleading quotes that we don't attribute correctly to the original ones, and we talk about this one a lot, and it was a jack of all trades is a master of none. And that's usually where it stops now. But they said the original full quote was a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one. And it actually has the opposite meaning. Yeah, and the interesting thing, because it reminded me that when you said, I think I don't remember if it was Isaac Newton, it was one of the famous people back in like 1700s, right? I can't remember which one it was. But he actually just didn't focus on the one thing he was famous for. Actually, like when he couldn't solve a problem, he would go in like garden and work on a completely different thing. And then if he couldn't figure it out there, he would then go do something completely different. And he would always get his inspiration to the thing he had a roadblock to while doing something completely different. And it always kind of stuck with me because like I've always felt like when I'm forcing an answer or trying to solve something really hard, I just get deeper into not seeing the answer, more and more frustrated, and I lose my ability to actually see what the other options are. And to me, like that's why when I read that, I'm like, I kind of actually lean more towards that than just focusing on one skill set, getting really good at it, and not focusing on anything else.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yeah. No, that's a really

Innovation Mindset From Ford To Musk

SPEAKER_00 20:39

good point. Um, I'll tell you some of the most frustrating people that I've worked with in my brokerage career are people that I don't know if they don't have the ability to problem solve, but they don't apply it at all. So, like I used to work with a lady that was a uh this is a company years and years ago. I think she was like yeah, she was a credit analyst. And the joke was like, oh, she just always loves to say no. Like, no, we can't give them credit or no, we can't increase their credit. But the whole reasoning was like she would, you know, she would run a credit report, and all she looked at was like the score. She didn't look at like any of the supporting data or do any analysis on what the trends looked like, or look at any outside information and like think creatively to say, like, hmm, how can I how can I try to say yes? She just always found it easier to say no than to try and find a creative solution to be able to find a way to say yes. Um and oftentimes, like, you know, we'd have you know issues where we're trying to get something done, and like everyone else is like, you know, this is an obvious, clear choice. Like, why would you say no to this? The the company is very reputable, and we'd end up going to like her boss, and her boss would be like, Yes, you can give them credit. Like, um, I we had one years ago, I forget, uh, oh no, it was uh it was SpaceX, right? There was a guy that was running credit, and he's like, Yeah, I just can't, you know, can't approve any credit for them. Like you know, the they're they're there's not enough reported on them. I was like, are you kidding me? SpaceX? Like it was to move their um the rocket. What's the name of the is it the Raptor engine? Yeah, is that the name of the engine?

SPEAKER_01 22:37

It might be like the Raptor 2, 3 or 4. It's definitely not the one, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

This is like two or three years ago, but it was a project to move their engines from the manufacturing site to where they assemble the rockets. And um, it was really cool because the the original opportunity came through, I believe it was a another logistics company who was doing like 4 PL work or like outsourced logistics basically for SpaceX. And then we got a contact directly within SpaceX. Um, and I believe because SpaceX wasn't the direct customer previously, there just wasn't enough reported

Jack Of All Trades And Breakthroughs

SPEAKER_00 23:15

on them. So they're like, Yeah, I just you know, I can't I can't find enough information. Like, we can't approve credit, they have to prepay. And I was like, What? I was like, you're gonna go. So anyway, like the broker who was trying to get credit, like quit, went somewhere else, set them up, because obviously the person was intelligent enough to like, yeah, we'll approve SpaceX. And then he like sends me a picture of the Raptor engines on a flatbed, he's like, I guess they figured it out over here. And I was like, Oh my god, it's embarrassing. Well, that reminds me it's basic just like thinking, right? Like it's like don't just just because it says if A, then B, like basic logic, like which is ironic because we're talking about logic here. This is, you know, common sense would tell you like there's a bigger picture here than just that.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

So So what do you think that reminded me of, right? One is I was doing some carpentry work and I've like never done finished carpentry. And one of the guys that works with me does that on the side and loves doing it. And I was asking him, I was like, well, I'm like, I kind of designed this, but when you build anything into a house, like your house isn't square, the walls aren't perfect. So like even when you measure perfectly, you're a little off. And also, like the width of a saw blade will create gaps and it doesn't look good, right? And I was like, how do you kind of plan this out? Because I'm like, I at least ask a bunch of questions before I start to just pick someone's brain and go, like, give me the obvious things that I'm gonna probably do wrong before I start. I know I'm gonna probably have to figure it out. And he basically says the same thing. He's like, dude, all finished carpentry work is like problem solving. And he's a freight broker and it's been for like 25 years. Like, that's why I like doing it. It's the physical version of our job. Like, you start with a plan, it never ends that way. You have to keep iterating, working back and forth. Maybe you get another cut. And he's like, you just figure it out. He's like, you will. And I'm like, after two or three days, I did. And I'm like, oh, like that really much, very much is like our job. Because you kind of have a plan. It's like that Mike Tyson quote everyone has a plan to get punched in the face, and then you have to like work your way through it. And it reminded me too of when I worked at a bank, which is why I left the banking industry, because like everything just has this framework. And if like it doesn't fit, they just said no. And I'm like, guys, like this guy's really smart. We should lend him the money. He's got a great track record, and like his business plan seems really strong, and there's collateral. And they're like, no, like we just won't take that risk. And I'm like, well, who helps these people get businesses? They're like, that's not what we're in. I'm like, I thought we're a community bank. Like, aren't we? I thought that's like literally, it's in it like on our ban or somewhere, like in our advertising. And they're like, Yeah, but like we just don't do those things. And then like I ran into this again recently with a brokerage. I was trying to get them traditional lines of credit. And here's what they said they go, Well, all of our lines of credit we'll give you, but we have a requirement in all of our lines of credit that at one point during the year you have to pay the entire thing down and leave it at zero for 30 days. And I went, have you guys ever worked with like a freight brokerage? Like you would never hit zero, or you would just stop doing business for a month. I'm like, or you would need to wait three years until you have enough retained earnings to not need the line of credit, then it's not used anymore. Like, like, why would you have that in there? And I got on with the crediting. And so he's like, no, like I this is a covenant I just really like putting in there. And I'm like, did you ever like work outside of a bank in academia? Because like that sounds great in a textbook, but in the practical world, that makes absolutely no sense. Like, why would you do that? Like, you would always need to keep borrowing on it, and you would need to borrow more as you grow. And he goes, Yeah, that's interesting you said that. One of our biggest customers is a flooring company. They're doing like a hundred million and they've had this problem for years. Like, this isn't a problem. You are creating the problem by putting a covenant in here that makes no practical sense because somewhere someone told you it needed to be in here, and you're not just thinking about how the business works, you're thinking about how to apply it to a textbook discussion or explanation of a line of credit. I'm like, seasonal businesses that work, but this isn't a seasonal business. And even as some seasonality, it would never go to zero. And like that wouldn't make sense in like any of these scenarios. And they're like, Yeah, well, like that's just how we have to do it. And I'm like, okay, now we got to iterate and find another solution. Like that could have worked and should have worked. They're rigid. Let's go work through this. And there's just like every day there's some some scenario like this in our industry, right? Here's the other one you brought up, I think off air, like covering loads. I was doing a training with like some newer carrier sales reps and some senior brokers. And I go like, what is your biggest issue, like working together with like the newer team? And they went, Well, I'll give them a load and they'll post it. They'll call some carriers and then they'll say, like, I don't have a truck. And then I'm like, well, then what do you do? They're like, well, I'll go back

Rigid Rules Create Bad Decisions

SPEAKER_01 27:57

to the emails or carriers that didn't respond, I'll send a second one. Then some of them respond. And then the people that don't respond to the second email, I'll call again, then some of them respond. And then if they don't respond, I'll send a third email. I'll change the subject line and I will make it seem a different way to get myself a response. And if I iterate enough, something I figure out that day that I put in that email or in that phone call usually gets me an option. That's how I cover my hard-to-load, my hard-to-cover trucks, loads. And I went, okay, like how do I teach somebody how to do that? Right. Because I'm like working with both of them. And I'm like, well, the skill set is really just like, don't overthink it, simplify it. I need a truck. They aren't responding. What other things can I do to get more responses? Try this. If it doesn't work, try something else. Like, you won't know what'll work until you keep trying. The point is, make it simpler and then just throw out some ideas and try to get creative. That's really how you get trucks. That's also how you get customers that no one else can get on the phone.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

You keep finding creative ways. Think about how our technology and the like just the tools that we use have changed dramatically over the years. Like if when you look at how to find a truck, if you go back to, you know, I'm trying to think when I first started, right? If it was just dat and truck stop, you had the basic like post a load, search for a truck, and that was it, right? And then it then it went, you know, you look at what do we have today? Well, you've got gen logs, right? I've we you can look at there's cameras all over the country on highways. You can see where these guys have driven in the past. You've got highway who's leaned in on ELD data to see where trucks are currently, where they've run historically. And they even started before the ELD data with just inspection data, right? But that all of that was still an improvement from just, you know, post and wait for a phone call, right? Um DAT, you know, did a lot with their, you know, if you look at pricing, right? They, you know, they used to have just like their basic rate view data on here's what was reported in the last um, you know, three days or seven days. And then they created rate cast, which is a predictive model to try and assume, hey, based on historically what we've seen seasonally in certain lanes, here's how we project the line haul rates to be in the upcoming year, right? So things things change and things develop, and it it changes the way that we do business. So I think um if you don't try to adopt what's new, you eventually will fall behind. I was actually talking with somebody yesterday. This is about AI, and it kind of like spun off from our our podcast last week on AI. And there's like there's people that clearly just like they're like, AI is the worst. It's it's killing everything. We need it to stop. And I was like, I was like, dude, I was like, if you don't adopt it now, I was like, you're gonna be like every person that didn't want to adopt the internet when it came out or adopt email when it came out, or you know, fill in the blank on technology that's that's advanced. Like it's the way that we do business now. It's like the companies like Blockbuster, right? Blockbuster is like a nostalgic 1990s kids like will totally understand going to Blockbuster on a Friday and you know, getting a uh a VHS tape and a bag of candy, right, by the checkout. Um but when streaming came out, Blockbuster didn't want to adopt anything related to that. They're like, no, you know, it's everyone's just gonna rent physical things now. And um then next thing you know, like Netflix was like one of the first ones that was like, no, we're just gonna we're gonna put it on the internet for you. And then everyone streams now, right? Nobody, if you want to rent something, you're streaming it. You're not like going to a store and renting a DVD or a VHS or a Blu-ray or whatever. It's all you know, things change and evolve with the way that we, the way we do everything. So same with music, right? Going from cassette tape to CDs to um everything is streamed now, right? Um, if you don't adopt and you know take take all the new available technology that's out there and and start to play around with it and figure out the best way you can use it, you're gonna eventually fall behind. And I I also want to point out like every new thing isn't always a good thing. There's always like some failures in there, like you know, the mini, the mini disc player like was there for a couple years, but it sucked and like never really, never really went anywhere. But it was a it was a cool new tech product for a while. The same with like I've seen you know, it's like every day I get pitched in an email on some new tech platform for freight brokerage, and I'm like, yeah, um, you know, I don't really see the value in that one. And then every now and then, like a new one comes out, and I'm like, wow, this is really cool. Like I think about the the Hallmark ones that we've come across over the years, like I already mentioned gen logs and highway. Like those are two that stick out that when we started this show, they didn't exist, right? I remember getting my first email from Kevin Hill about he's like, hey, you I want to show you this search carriers thing, right? Which eventually turned into highway, and it's highway's massive now. And

Covering Hard Loads Through Iteration

SPEAKER_00 33:06

I remember Ryan Joyce reaching out to us about gen logs and their concept, and I was like, this seems interesting. Like every now and then, like you get one that you're like, there's something there, right? And you gotta lean into it. And um, it's always like you have that conversation with the with your organization. You're like, hey guys, I got this new concept, and you get the people that are like, no, we don't need to change anything. Don't fix what's not broken. And I'm like, it's not broken, but you can still make it better. You know what I mean? Like that is what I think is like problem solving and being creative.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

It's like every invention starts with there's a problem, and somebody goes, Well, I used to work in like the invention world. It's like the next thing is like, well, there's probably a better way to do this, and then you're curious, and then you find it, right? Like this is happening a lot now in like a lot of different things. Um, it's happening in archaeology where people are going to these places now and just spinning up a YouTube channel and just asking curious questions. Like, hey, you said this thing is that old, but if you look at the erosion on it, it looks like it's much older. Why did no one ask that question? Oh, hey, like we just dug this thing up. This certainly doesn't look like it's that old. Um, and then asking better questions. And like these YouTube channels are becoming really popular and they're super fascinating. What are they doing? They're just being curious. They don't think they know the answer. They're not saying they know the answer. They're just going, why aren't we asking these questions? Why are we constantly deferring to like credentialed people that just believe they're right and aren't asking better questions? Right. Because it's literally everywhere. The forward innovation of anything happens from going, hey, this seems frustrating. Are there other ways I can do this? Tell the story about the broker you were talking about just a minute ago, off-air, where like he had his biggest month ever, and what problem he ran into, and how did he use the available tools to try to find a better way to do this?

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Oh, yeah, he um Brandon, if you're listening, shout out to you. But we he's he was telling me he was listening to our AI episode last week, and he's he was telling me um one of his biggest bottlenecks was checking MC numbers when it came to email offers. And he he basically used AI to I think it was to build or create like a Google extension that would, I think it connected basically his email right to highway and it checked MC numbers like with one click instead of having to um continuously go back and forth, copy and paste or like type in the number and all that. But just it's just in general finding a new way to go about doing things. And um, I remember the last company that I worked for had its own TMS, and it we had at one point we had like four or five people on the on the IT like developer team. And I remember asking, I was like, why do we have like why is there so many like dev guys? Like and they're like, I'm like, they're like, well, we're just constantly trying to make the TMS better and faster and create new tools and be able to do this because we we've got to be able to stay ahead of our competition when it comes to how we get things done, how fast that we do it in different ways we can, you know, think about getting results. Like they would release, you know, updates periodically. And I remember one of the things they came out with was this this crazy, like, well, it's not really crazy because it's pretty common now, but it was like this uh what'd they call it? It was a care, some kind of carrier search. And what it did was it took every data point that you would normally use when you want to look for a carrier and it would automate the search for you. So it'd be like, all right, is there a truck posted on the load boards? Has a truck ran this for us in the past? Um, do we have any data that that lets us know a truck is you know somewhat reasonably in that area? And it's like if if you don't constantly try to improve and and build new tools, and some of them are gonna fail. Like I've definitely seen I don't know, yeah. They would they release stuff that like crashed the system because it just used up too much uh you know uh software power or whatever

Tech And AI As Problem Solvers

SPEAKER_00 36:56

you call it. Um, but I think that's like that's one of the things you have to always do is look to get better and you know challenge the status quo and and try to think of creative ways to to do things.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

There's another quote that reminded me of. There's a Thomas Edison quote they said, he said, like, I didn't invent the light bulb. I found 9,999 ways for it not to work. That's how I invented the light bulb. I just kept doing it over and over and watching it break until eventually we found one that did work, right? Here's another one, like back into like the transportation um scenario was like I remember back like the ELD crunch. So, and I've told the story about like where mayors we finally onboarded them and they reached out to us and like, we can't get any of our containers moved. Like, there's just not enough capacity. Whatever you can move, like just tell us the price. It's basically open checkbook because they're stuck there. We're paying 300 bucks a day. So whatever you charge, like is gonna be cheaper than it's sitting there forever. And it's like you said, well, first go to DAT, first look at our system. Well, there's not a lot of drayage carriers back then. Okay, well, what determines a drayage carrier? Simple, not more complicated. Oh, they're all a member of this organization, the UIIA. Okay. Well, does the UIIA have a captive list? Oh, they do. Call them, ask. Yes, we have that. Can I buy it? Yes, a couple hundred bucks, great. Now I have all of them. Okay, well, at the time, like America and the other companies, the SSLs, like they had almost everyone in their system. And they're telling me, like, well, like we have everybody, like, we don't think you're gonna be able to get anyone, but if you can, let us know. And I'm like, well, you do have them all, but they're all communicating in one way through your system. And also they have your rates on file, and you're giving me additional funds to give them to help what you can't because it disrupt your pricing. Like, simple, not more complicated. And then I'm like, okay, well, how do you reach all of them? This is like 11 years ago. Send them all an email. Well, it didn't go great because the email basically got back to like the CEO of TQL and like the head at Maersk, and they're like, um, you just announced like a partnership between these two companies. Because I'm like, I needed somebody to get back to me, right? And I'm like, I have nowhere to start. Literally got like yelled at, slapped on the wrist, like, don't do this again. But on the other side of that, a lot of them started responding and emailing back to me. Then I started asking them, wait, like, there's a lot of containers. I know you guys are onboarded with my customer. Do you have any extra drivers? Well, no, man, like they just don't pay enough. I'm like, okay, well, like what if I had a little more money? Do you think you could squeeze out like one more container this week if one of them gets canceled, you already scheduled? Yeah, I can get one more. Great, there's one. And just did that over and over again until I could do three, four hundred of them a week. And it's literally just what is

Drayage Capacity Hack During ELD Crunch

SPEAKER_01 39:45

the next likely or obvious thing you can try? And just keep trying things. And honestly, you kind of eventually will usually find a solution, get a customer, find a truck. If you don't quit, like the biggest thing is like, don't wait till you have a solution to start. Just start. And when it doesn't work, think of something else and just keep doing that and make it less complicated, more simple. And like usually you'll find some way to work through it.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah. Um, it may it kind of makes me think back to the the line we've said in the past that's like uh you should become a good freight broker, should become an extension of of your customer's supply chain. Like you really truly should be not just a uh truck finder, but an extension of their supply chain. So, like that's a great example you just you laid out there. I've seen other ones too where um we did one years ago where and I've probably told this story before, but we did a walkthrough with a customer and they moved heat exchangers, and we walked through their facility and they were running out of like storage um inside of their like inside of their building for just storage in general for stuff. They had all these old casts, like wooden casts all over the floor that they had to have, because they I think it was like 60 years ago or something like that. If they made a heat exchanger or a part for a I think it was a navy contract. So if they had made a part for a navy ship, and let's say that navy ship is no longer produced, but if it ever needed a a part to be replaced or made again uh for this super old ship, they needed to have the original wooden cast that was used to create that part, and they just had like hundreds and hundreds of these casts for like old, you know, outdated, obsolete parts that didn't exist anymore. But in case it was ever needed to make another one or repair one, they needed the original cast to make a new one, and they were just sitting there all over their floor. And I was like, well, there's a bunch of space you could, you know, clear up right there if you just put these somewhere else. Because you clearly, if you need them, you don't need them quickly and you're gonna know way ahead of time, right? So why don't we go store them off-site somewhere? And they're like, Well, okay, well, how do we find a warehouse? And I was like, Well, ironically, we have a giant warehouse attached to our brokerage building that we don't use. And then we had to go through all the, you know, figure out all this stuff to get it, you know, physical security done properly, get insurance on it to cover if anything was damaged or stolen or whatever. And then we got a bunch of uh storage racks put up, and we set up this whole warehousing operation where then um, in addition to moving their full truckload stuff, we then had their short-term storage, long-term storage,

Becoming A True Supply Chain Partner

SPEAKER_00 42:33

what was the cost for every time we were to um, you know, move a partial in or out and offload it, uh, a full truckload, et cetera. And we created this whole new solution and it created efficiencies for them, which allowed them to do better business and make more profits. And it also gave us more business, and it was a massive value add for the customer because then we're not just finding them trucks to move their heat exchangers, we're now a logistics partner with them. So whenever anything happens um that comes up and they need a solution, they're gonna be like, hey, these guys are our partner when it comes to this. I remember the one day um we had like their whole leadership team visit the office. So it was like the guy that did all of the outbound uh freight traffic, and then we had like his boss, who was like the um probably like the logistics director. And then we had his boss who was like the um VP of something. And I remember the guy, the one guy came in, he's like, he's like, dude, you're making me look so good at work. And I was like, hell yeah. Like, and that's kind of like what by being a good problem solver and thinking outside the box, like that is how you do good business and get good at this. And I I truly think, and I was saying this off air with you, is like when it comes to hiring in any role in brokerage, and this goes to a lot of industries, like just problem solving in general, I think is a really, really um good skill to look for. Because if someone doesn't know the first thing about freight, but they are they have a very creative mind and they're a good problem solver, or you can teach them freight, right? Because then what's good then is their mind is already like wired in a certain way to like go through the you know the the maze of like trying to figure out how how things work and how to make stuff better and how to solve a problem. So um, yeah, I mean there's you have the pipe stake example of like how you created um you know a solution for customer that people would show up without pipe stakes, and you got a local uh you know manufacturer to create them, you know, for you and all that stuff. And it's this stuff like goes on and on and on. I've seen it in drop trailer programs where people are like, yeah, the issue we have is they're spending so much money on like layover and detention because shipments aren't ready, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, all right, well, if we can pay a little bit more to get a drop trailer in there, but pay way less to offset that by we're not paying fees on detention and tonus and and uh layovers, like that's a win-win. So like this is the the kind of stuff that comes with time, but like this is what makes a good freight broker a great freight broker.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Correct. It's like the problem solving. And again, like if somebody asks, like, what skills that like I feel like I learned that are most applicable to this, like it's always like the 101 level stuff. It's not like high-level finance, it's not high-level economics, it's like basic math, variables. How many do you have? Right. Like, literally, like not even algebra or basic algebra, like 101 level economics. Like, if you have more of something, it's probably worth less. If you have less of something, it's probably more expensive, right? And in logistics, like the best part of it is like if you don't think about it complicated and just go, like, I'm moving something. What are the variables or constraints? How big it is, size, height, width, length, how much it weighs, right? How do you get it on the thing? How do you get it off the thing? How are you moving it? And how much time do you have? Right? Like those are kind of the only things that change. Well, temperature if you're doing temp control. But beyond that, like that's it. Like, that's all you have to work with, right? So, like in your example, it's like, well, I can't get anybody in. Well, why not? Well, because the trucks were. Wait and our stuff's not ready. Can you get your stuff ready on time a little earlier? No, we get our orders last minute. Okay. Well, what if I just leave trailers there and get them once you put the stuff in it? Oh, that would work. Okay, great. Well, it's a little more money, but I'm guessing it saves you headaches and saves you time and staff at your loading dock. Yeah. So okay, you pay a little more for a truck, but you saved a bunch of wages to get the stuff in the truck and your customers are happy? Yeah. Okay. Well, seems like that makes sense. Like it's not like these crazy complicated like models to like figure these things out. It's just like asking questions until you get to like, what is the core reason this issue exists? And what are a bunch of things you can think about that like possibly make this less of a headache, right? You don't even need to solve it completely. Just get to the thing that seems most obvious and just talk through it. Like that's where most of these things and solutions come from.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Yeah. Well, the last thing I'll add on this, this makes me think back. Every now and then I'll throw in like a little uh military analogy. So in in the army, we do what's called uh the military decision making process. Because I was thinking as we were talking through this, I'm like, well, how do you how do you train someone to be a better problem solver or a more creative thinker? And I think it's um so there's there's like seven main steps to this military uh decision making process. It's it's called uh receipt of the mission, mission analysis, course of action development, course of action analysis, which is when you would war game out a scenario, um, course of action comparison, course of action approval, and then you produce the orders of what to do. So but the whole point of that is a lot of time is spent developing different options, playing them out in a you know hypothetical scenario, and then comparing them against each other and then picking one that works the best. And I think if you don't have that creative um, that creative thought process, um, you're you're never gonna change or improve what's going on. So I think whenever you have a um, you know, we call we also use the term uh after action uh report, AAR, which is like, you know, what was supposed to happen, what actually happened, what do we want to sustain, what do we want to improve? So whenever you have like a um a crazy situation in your brokerage world, like, hey, we had a stolen load, or hey, we had this dollar broker, or hey, we had, you know, whatever it is, like talk about it as a group and then think about like, well, how can we prevent that in the future? Because if you keep everything siloed and isolated, and like then one guy's or gal's like problem that they took care of, no one else can learn from if you don't talk about it. So like that's why I think sharing information across the organization and sharing your stories and what worked, what didn't work, like that is how you will get, you know, you know, you will teach people without them having to learn a lesson the hard way. And it helps people think creatively and in sync with one another.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Now, and I'm gonna like put my like tendon foil hat on as to like why I think this exists now. Like my best guess at this is I think everyone actually has this ability inherent in them. I think everyone is actually probably better at this than they believe. I think the reason why some people believe they aren't as good at this is because for the past hundred years, the education system

Teaching Teams With AARs

SPEAKER_01 49:21

has taught conformity and that you need to go to authority to find an answer instead of thinking for yourself. Because when they developed our school system, the problem they were solving was they needed factory workers and they needed people to be able to sit there or do a job all day and listen to a manager. And they were solving the problem from World War I, which was they could force people to fight, but they didn't want to kill people, so they wouldn't listen to the authorities and the military. So they went, we need to start kids sooner, which is when kindergarten came out. I think it's like a Prussian system. They're like, we need to basically ingrain in society people listening to authority, following directions so we can have factory workers, people that sit there and do what they're told, go to war when we tell them to, and do what we tell them to. So for a hundred years, we've been educating our entire society for conformity, asking for permission, not thinking for yourself, going to some authority figure and asking them for the answer to the point where people just feel like that is how things are solved. When the truth is, like most people have intuition, everybody knows that. You have that feeling, like, this doesn't feel right. I kind of feel like I should be doing something else. Like, that's probably what you should be listening to. I mean, within reason, like we need to cooperate. But like, I genuinely believe that most people would probably be much better at this if they questioned why they're not doing this in the first place and get to the fact that like you probably do this in some area of your life. And the best place to look are like your interests and your hobbies, because you're not usually asking people how to do something you like to do. You just keep finding ways to do it better. Like that is that skill set. It's the same one, but it doesn't just exist in that little bubble of like a sport you play, a hobby, art, music, whatever that is that you like to do, you iterate all the time and think of new things. Whether you're playing a video game, you're not calling somebody and asking them, well, what do I do next? Maybe you look for tips, but you're just doing it over and over again until you get better at it. That's why I think like most people probably

Relearning Curiosity From Kids

SPEAKER_01 51:19

are very good at this. They just don't believe they are, which is why they inherently aren't.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Yeah. Lastly, I'll say, like, if you're I kind of gave the example earlier of like someone that like they're given a set of instructions and they never they never question or challenge those instructions. They just always follow them. And I would encourage you, like, if you're in a role, whether it is um well, not even a role, I'll just say like think about a a process or a thing that you do, whether it's the way that you approve credit, if it's the rules that you have for a carrier to qualify. And this is a big, this is a big discussion right now with the Montgomery case, like how are we vetting carriers? Um, whether it's how, you know, what's our pricing strategy, or what is the methods that we're using to source capacity, or how are how are we using our CRM to track follow-ups and activity, or you know, all of those all of those uh tasks that you do, um I would challenge you to like think of where where is there something that you're doing that you feel like we don't need to be doing it this way, or where can we do something additional or different? And that's what's gonna make you better and have those conversations. And if you don't regularly meet with your team or your direct supervisor, or if you are the boss with your teammates, um you don't ever you don't ever have this feedback loop that you know is gonna help you guys all get better and and really progress the company. So correct. And there's there's a healthy way to challenge things and there's an unhealthy like just don't don't go in and be like, this process sucks. We need to change it. It's like no, like come to me with I always say like don't come to me with a problem unless you have at least a solution to it. Like come to me with a problem or a question. Three possible solutions, yeah, or a question, right? But if don't just come and complain about the problem, give me a you know a problem with three possible solutions and we could talk through, you know, what you think might make this better.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

So two things that reminds me of, right? Like it's like you ever that saying, I think it's from the military. It's like when when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail because you're just taught to be a hammer. So just every solution to every problem is hit the thing, right? But sometimes you have to take a nail out. But why do you need a nail to like connect two things? The thing that makes me believe that everybody actually can do this is every little kid does this. What do they do? Why, dad? Why? Well, why did you do that? Well, why do you do that? Well, why do you do that? Eventually, like you get to the core thing. And I'm like, my seven-year-old does this with everything. Hey, honey, can you go do this? Why am I doing that, Dad? Why does that need to be done? And then eventually we get to the reason. She goes, Oh, okay, that makes sense and does it. And I'm like, if you just keep asking questions and keep thinking, do you like eventually we'll get to the root cause of the thing you're trying to solve? Then you go, what else could I possibly do that gets me to the same result? Right. And like to me, that's why I think everybody actually has this. And the thing you really want to cultivate is curiosity. I mean, that might be it. Curiosity and maybe um my mind's blanking. Which is the other side of this, which is blanking.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

What the opposite of curiosity?

SPEAKER_01 54:36

No, you're curious to find what thing you're trying to solve. And then one, oh, then creativity on the other end. Okay. Like curiosity to get to the root of the thing you're trying to actually do, and then be creative in all the different ways you could possibly get to a different solution.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Yep. I like it. I like it. Well, good discussion here. Let us know uh if you guys have any cool stories about how you solved a customer's problem or an internal problem or any kind of problem that is relevant to our industry. Um that was fun, though. Good stuff. Final thoughts, Ben.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

Whether you believe you can or believe you can't, you're right. And until next time, go bills.