Freight 360

How to Move Your First Load With a New Customer | Episode 280

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🎙️ Freight, Trade & Touchdowns

  • Freight Brokerage 101 – Learn how to quote a new shipper and secure your first load.
  • Trade & Tariffs – The impact of trade wars, Mexican border policies, and USPS parcel suspensions.
  • NFL & Laughs – Super Bowl hot takes, referee favoritism, and Ben’s daddy-daughter dance.
  • LTL Changes – Updates on freight class shifts and how brokers can adapt.
  • Sales Strategies – Cold calling tactics, trust-building, and securing long-term customers.

Tune in for a mix of industry insights, real-world strategies, and a bit of fun along the way!

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Speaker 1:

Welcome back Episode 280 of the Freight 360 podcast. This is going to be part three in a prospecting series. We're going to talk about getting to that point where you get an opportunity to quote a brand new shipper, a new customer of yours, and how to get to that level, how to handle those situations. Getting that first load. It's a big milestone, so we'll dig into it here shortly. But first, as always, if you're brand new, make sure to check out all of our other content at Freight360.net, including the Freight Broker Basics course for the full length training that we offer, and we've got all kinds of blogs, podcasts, youtube videos, downloadable content. You can check out all of our recommended technology and software and all the vendors that we like their products. Subscribe, comment, share us all that good stuff. Ben, what's happening man?

Speaker 2:

What's up, man, week's coming along, nice, weather's nice. I'm pretty excited. I have a dance this Friday. My daughter's in kindergarten and they're having the daddy-daughter dance, so she's super excited. Nice man Looking forward to it. That's awesome. Snoop in your neck of the woods.

Speaker 1:

I have a little countdown on my mantle above my fireplace. It's like how many days until we go to Florida, because the kids love going every single spring and we're just just over 50 days. So we're counting down the days to get the hell out of Buffalo and migrate down south spring Looking forward to seeing you guys. Yeah, man, totally Sports, all right, really quick. The NFL Pro Bowl. Did you watch any of those events on Sunday?

Speaker 1:

It is like comically silly. Like tug of war these guys are doing like I don't know they're running through tires. And then they have a flag football game which I was surprised like there was. Uh, I was just curious. I'm like what would a casino like place odds on a game like that? And I don't think like any of the major ones offered it, but I like I could still look up on like various websites like what posted odds were and the like the over under was like 80 something points.

Speaker 2:

Because there's no, there's really like no there's no line, it's just a bunch of quarterbacks throwing to receivers, right, and it was like 80 something.

Speaker 1:

The final score was like well over 100 points. It was just like constant scoring touchdowns and all that stuff. But it was, yeah, the the NFC one. But anyway, it is what it is.

Speaker 1:

But the Super Bowl here's what I here's what I loved is I saw a couple of interviews this past week and or this week, and it was you know, they're interviewing players out of the Super Bowl and the one was to my homes and one was the Kelsey that I laughed at. And the one to my homes was like, hey, you know, you've got a lot of people that have helped you get to success. You know, you know who's your, who's your favorite ref. And he like he basically like tried to answer it honestly and was like you know, yeah, you know, the refs are all great. You know we play the game fair. They do a good job. We do a good job of a lot.

Speaker 1:

But the guy asked it was such a stone cold face and I think it might have been the same interviewer went to Kelsey and was like who do you love more, taylor Swift or the ghost 15-yard roughing, the passer penalty or whatever? I'm like, oh my god, kelsey didn't take it as lightly. He basically blatantly asked him if there's one question you have for the media, what is it? He's like what is it with you guys and the refs Like, why is everybody following that? Blah, blah, blah. The reality is, man, like everybody in America, unless you're a like actual Chiefs fan, everybody wants the Chiefs to lose.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it was funny. I heard they put out a statement, the guy who I guess and I don't know what you call it like the Association of Referees and I don't know if it's a subdivision of the NFL or a standalone organization, but they put out a statement saying, like you know, there's like 130, some referees.

Speaker 1:

No, two referees will basically be over one team twice yeah.

Speaker 2:

And they rotate and they were like so it is ridiculous to say that like there is any favorability. And it's funny because, like everybody basically commented, went yeah, but that doesn't mean they all did a good job in those games with that team.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Just because there wasn't collusion doesn't mean that like there couldn't have been some either unknown bias or that they just did a poor job in those specific matchups.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, it's interesting too, and then we'll get past this topic. But someone had a post and it was like every time Josh Allen loses to the Chiefs, a new rule has changed in the NFL because, like the the 13 seconds game they they decided in the playoffs, both teams get possession and overtime, which I agree on, and now that the poor ball spot that didn't result in a first down which would have likely led the Bills to solidify a win and go to the Super Bowl. Now they're saying the technology is available for electronic ball marking. Looking at next year, maybe just in the postseason, which we'll see, we'll see, I mean, if the refs can't get the placement of the ball right and you have technology to do it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean again. I heard another guy said he's like he's I think it was it was Gene Steratore was talking about. He was like the pylons. He's like I'll bet there's $400,000 worth of cameras in a pylon. He was like the pylons. He's like I'll bet there's $400,000 worth of cameras in a pylon. Do you mean to tell me you can't put technology?

Speaker 1:

in the football to determine where it was. And they said. Even Roger Goodell, the commissioner, said the technology's there, They've been testing it and they're looking at implementing it as early as next season. So we'll see. And you'll have more replay, assist and all that stuff. But yeah, nfl Super Bowl coming up, who do you think takes the win?

Speaker 2:

I maybe they're just wishful thinking, but I clearly want Philly to win, yeah yeah so I wouldn't bet on them to win. I don't know what the line is. I'm with you.

Speaker 1:

I think Saquon Barkley is just so good and I don't know, the Chiefs are the Chiefs though man it's, you know it's going to. I just I honestly hope it's just a good, clean football game. Clean meaning like there's no controversy, because these two teams played a few years back and Philly lost to Kansas City in the Super Bowl, and this was a game where there was literally a debatable, controversial flag thrown that put Kansas City in a position to late, like late in the game, late in the fourth quarter, to go down and score for a win. So I don't know, tough to say, but yeah, I'm with you. I wouldn't be surprised if either team wins. My household will be rooting for the Eagles. So go, birds.

Speaker 1:

Ok news, what do you? What do you see on the tariffs this week? And again, this drops Friday. We're recording Wednesday. I put the newsletter together on Monday night and by Tuesday morning and the newsletter was like the data was like slightly incorrect. So it's an ever changing thing, but as it stands now, like the Mexico and Canadian tariffs have been paused. But what is your take on all of this? Is it going to go anywhere? Is it all just like people flexing and it's going to just go away. What do you think?

Speaker 2:

My opinion is like I honestly don't follow any of it, even though I probably should, even just for the implications in our industry. But I don't because I genuinely think that so much of it is just posturing and negotiating tactics that like to try to discern what the motivations are, like you're just not going to get the information right. Like they're not going to put that out there. You wouldn't probably have it unless you were in the inner circle of the people making these calls. So it's like I didn't really understand the rationale for like I think the justification was like drugs and fentanyl or something coming in to the US from China via both of these sides, and maybe they just wanted both countries to do more and didn't think they were. So they use this to leverage both countries, at least putting the perception that they're doing more. I'm like I don't know if 10,000 Mexican national guards are going to do anything to resolve anything. Is that a solution? Does that change anything? I'm like I genuinely have no idea.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you put them there, but what are they going to do? Are they actually going to do?

Speaker 2:

you know what are their rules of engagement, what are their standard operating procedures, all that stuff, even the Mexico thing or not, the Mexico thing, the Canada thing, like somebody was debating on LinkedIn some people in our industry and somebody went like this is the reason. And the other person went, yeah, but like the empirical evidence shows that most of these drugs are brought in by US citizens. So even if you do increase the manpower, I guess at the border, like it doesn't really do anything to actually affect, change, the cause of the problem.

Speaker 1:

It reminds me of that movie. We're the Millers. You ever see that one yeah.

Speaker 2:

They take the RV down.

Speaker 1:

I mean no regrets, really Not a single letter, not a single letter. Even China. China said, hey, we're going to impose our own tariffs on the US. So we'll see. It's a trade war man, you know. It's no one impose our own tariffs on the US.

Speaker 1:

So we'll see. It's a trade war man, you know it's. No one knows. No one knows. But yeah, this stuff can have trickle-down impacts on the US domestic market when it comes to the price of goods not necessarily the cost of transportation, necessarily the cost of transportation. So, uh, but I mean, you had a, you had the whole steel issue back in 2017, right, that you had to deal with as it was unfolding. So, if you deal with anything that's imported or exported, be prepared to uh react, to contact um as things unfold here and then in the coming months, yeah, it could be wild.

Speaker 2:

I mean, if they do go into effect, I mean you would see drastic impacts on transportation. I think and I don't mean by like the causing the prices to go up, but I think as a result they will like if you just start imposing tariffs immediately. The thing that happens is is everything in transit isn't usually clear as to who is responsible for it, and then everybody wants to argue. Well then the truckers and us are trying to manage where the loads are going, because people don't want to accept them, and then they're going to argue over who's responsible for the tariffs, who's going to pay. At least that's what happened with steel and 17 when I was moving it.

Speaker 2:

And I'm like you have so many truckloads of auto parts specifically that run back and forth between Canada and the auto manufacturing industry and I just can't imagine what that would look like the day if they were imposed, as to where those trucks go, do they get delivered, do they negotiate some of it after. I mean, they would all probably play out on like a case by case basis, which would drastically either stop shipping for some period of time until it's worked out and then increase, and then you're going to see massive fluctuations, which is good for the industry, creates issues and pushes prices up. Good for carriers, good for us, but it's a lot of work.

Speaker 1:

Agreed, agreed Changes coming to the LTL world, the class system, and this was. This is nothing new, it's just the timeline of it is pushed back. It was supposed to be in may, now it's going to be in july.

Speaker 2:

Um changes to how what you got so steven pointed this out and I did see this too this morning. Um, the thing on china related to like small packages apparently something like it was a huge number and I definitely could be wrong with this. I'm gonna say it was like 800 million, it might even have been larger than that Like the number of small packages that basically come from Taiwan through not Taiwan, from China and I can't remember where but through USPS that they're able to ship and basically subvert, I guess, tariffs because of either the size of the package. So I saw this morning like USPS is no longer taking like parcel mail from China, I think, into the US and that's directly going to affect like well, timu, I think, sheen. A lot of that stuff is now made in the US. Oh yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, basically, amazon's the winner in all of this, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean the US Postal Service said it would temporarily suspend international parcels from China and Hong Kong, cutting off a service that is popular with online vendors in China. The announcement said the inbound service was suspended until further notice and that the change wouldn't affect delivery of letters, but the move comes after the Trump administration imposed new tariffs on China and moved to close a loophole that allows companies to avoid paying tariffs if they ship packages worth less than $800 directly to a US consumer.

Speaker 1:

There you go, ltl real quick updates to the class, the freight class system. Check out our newsletter. We got a link to a good article in there. You can sign up on our website, freight360.net, for the tuesday and thursday newsletter. But basically they're um, they're simplifying it in a nutshell. So if you do ltl, um, they delayed the enact, the enactment date by a couple months to give shippers, carriers and 3pls a little more time to prepare for it. But it's gonna make it easier simplify. You know there was basically in a nutshell. There's like four categories subject, or either objectively or subjectively they look at to determine freight class and they're basically trying to make it just a density only thing for the majority of commodities. So I think it was like 44 percent of commodities are going to be affected in a positive way, like it's going to simplify how they're, how they're classed.

Speaker 1:

Reclass is kind of like the detention of the LTL world. It's unnecessary time and money. That can can save everybody time and money and just increase efficiency. So oftentimes you'll see a customer not know the class of their, their commodity that they're shipping and it gets quoted. The carrier inspects, it says no, this is actually class, blah, blah, blah and there's a charge for the inspection plus a an upcharge for the new um rate, um, so, yeah, hopefully that'll help out. Also, I didn't have it in our show notes but the um, the and I never. I was going to talk to you about this the other day and I never followed up the um. Let's see what.

Speaker 1:

What is it called the household goods shipping consumer protection act? Right, this is the, the bill that was we lobbied for and tried to get support in dc last september at the um, the capital, uh for the policy forum and uh, on capital hill in dc and you were, I think you were asking like, why is it called? Like household goods? Right, and the big thing for us as brokers is like, part of this bill impacts our industry. But on the whole, it's not all about freight brokering. It's, you know, a lot of it has to do with household goods and the consumer, like the, the, the average citizen, um, but part of this legislation it is being now it's fully supportive, they got the right amount of members and now it's being introduced in the House and the Senate. But part of it gives the FMCSA the ability to enact civil penalties, which they did not have before, to go after people that are violating the laws that are there.

Speaker 2:

So here's the question I have and this is the thing I was going to ask you is do they only have the ability to enact civil penalties under the narrow umbrella of household goods, or does the ability to enact civil penalties operate broadly across the industry?

Speaker 1:

now it's broadly because the FMCSA handles both household goods and freight. You think about, like the authorities that get listed right, like freight broker, you know, or broker of property excluding household goods, and then broker of property for household goods, and then same thing, motor carrier of property excluding household goods, motor carrier of household goods, right? So the FMcsa now has the ability throughout their entire, under their entire umbrella, to enact civil penalties. So if you have um, if you have, so here's, I think, where it came from, is they, if, if a shipper is fraudulently shipping something so let's say, someone is smuggling um, it could be human trafficking, it could be drugs, paraphernalia, whatever right it gives them the ability to impose penalties against these fraudulent shippers, carriers that are operating outside their authority, and that spills over into the 3PL and freight space as well.

Speaker 1:

So double brokering or I shouldn't call it double brokering and freight space as well. So double brokering or I shouldn't call it double brokering illegal or fraudulent brokerage activities, I think is how they actually officially classify it. But if you are brokering freight without the authority to do so, all these complaints that we've had and nothing's been done, now should this legislation that's being introduced in the House and the Senate, should it be passed and signed into law. Now they'll have the ability, and they can't say, well, we can't do anything. So now the next ask, I'm sure this will be.

Speaker 2:

Why aren't you doing anything?

Speaker 1:

You have the ability, why aren't you doing anything now? So, and that's just how our government works?

Speaker 2:

I wonder how long it'll take before they get the budget to actually be able to run those. Basically get the budget to actually be able to run those. Basically. Complaints down vet them out. What the due diligence process looks like.

Speaker 1:

I don't think it's necessarily the budget in and by itself. I think it might just be like who is who is telling them what to do? It's like sean duffy now, as dot uh, the secretary of the department of transportation, like you know, if it gets in his ear that, like this is a priority, he could direct his administrator, his agency, to do what you know prioritize X, y and Z. Right, you have the ability. This is top priority. You know it's supposed to come from the top down, I believe, and that'll you know how does it come from the top down? Through lobbying efforts. And you know notoriety and you know people have to know what the issue is before there's push in a certain direction.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean, I ran into one yesterday. I was talking with a prospect and this company was like, I was looking at their contract and the contract was written to both the shipper and the trucking company that they said was a wholly owned subsidiary of the shipper, right, and I was like, well, who are we running credit for to set you guys up to like onboard you? So go this company, which was the transportation company, right, and we said, oh, ok, what's your MC? That MC was a trucking company. So then the next question was well, that MC was a trucking company. So then the next question was well, just so we're clear, because we had a BOL and we had seen one about this company. So I was like but your tenders show the company that owns you. So are they tendering the freight and you're paying us?

Speaker 1:

no-transcript. A few weeks ago that like tried to. He's a broker and he like tried to set up a trucking company with a customer. Because he's like, yeah, he's like, this is how I've always done it. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, like it was basically like a sister company of the brokerage. And he's like, yeah, I just set up the trucking company. The customer times me a loads and I broke him out. I'm like that, dude, you, you understand that it's double brokering. Right, this is the fraud in the industry that we're talking about here.

Speaker 2:

He's like, oh, okay, okay, and you know what I think you got to be kidding me To your point. I think the real confusion comes from the verbiage you used to describe it, because when people say double brokering, they assume it's a broker, and a broker Like that's co-brokering and that happens all of the time, right? What it really is is, like you said, unauthorized or brokering freight unlicensed, right, because as a trucking company, you don't have the authority to take a load and then arrange transportation outside of your own assets. That really should just, I feel like, clearly be defined differently, and it would clear up a lot of confusion as to what is double brokering as opposed to unlicensed brokering and co-brokering, which are really the two different scenarios. Yep.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're absolutely right. You're right, all right. Well, good stuff, we'll see how everything unfolds as we make our way through 2025. All right, let's talk. This is the stuff everyone. Oh, and before we get into the prospecting and getting your first shipment, I'm going to talk a little bit about Great response from the audience out there on these reaction videos on cold calling. So we'll, we'll keep those coming.

Speaker 1:

Someone commented saying, like, can you guys role play? And here's the thing like we can role play all day long, but it's never going to be authentic, right? The authentic content is the actual someone talking to a shipper. Authentic content is the actual someone talking to a shipper. So, yeah, I mean, and you and I don't work at the same brokerage, so we're not going to hop on the phone together and call a shipper, but what we do which is kind of a me in the middle is we watch someone authentically talking to a shipper, cold calling them, prospecting them, and then we, we give our what you could consider, uh, you know, a mock call like role-playing. We give our critique on what we would have said and how we would have, um, you know, just any tips to improve, cause some of these like one of the ones we did. Um, we actually thought the girl did very good in a lot of aspects, so a lot of it is hey, great job on this. Here's something you could have done differently, but yeah, we'll definitely keep that stuff coming.

Speaker 2:

And here's the thing. I think that really seems different to me and I thought about this a lot. Right Is it's a controlled environment versus a live environment, right, and this literally so like I had a tennis lesson last night and I spent the past three months learning how to hit a tennis ball controlled, where somebody is literally hitting it, probably to the same place, or throwing the ball so it's easier to judge. Right, and I'm like I am really getting better at this. Well, yesterday and last week my last two lessons we played live with points, so it was more of like an actual match, Right, and he told me this right before we started. He's like I will promise you you're going to get frustrated, irritated and you're going to feel like everything you've learned goes out the window. And in my head I'm like no, I'll be calm, I'll be able to do exactly what you said. You know, keep low, do these, these things, these reminders, and sure as shit, within three minutes of playing points, I got frustrated because I wasn't winning. I got irritated and I forgot everything he showed me. And he's like this is the next level. It's learning how to deal with things as they come at you.

Speaker 2:

Right, and I think cold calling is very similar, right, Like you can role play, but again you don't have the nerves there, You're not risking or feeling like you could lose this potential customer by saying the wrong thing.

Speaker 2:

And those are the things that you've got to practice so that you it's not just confidence, it's so that you get used to being in that environment and you stay calmer and you can just talk to them like a person.

Speaker 2:

But you can't build that habit or that muscle without putting yourself in the scary situation with the risk. It's like you can learn to ride a bike with training wheels, but as soon as you take them off it is a completely different experience. And now you've got to learn how to feel and to deal with your balance, how fast you're moving, because those variables just aren't on the table when you've got training wheels. And that's why we say, like you've got to make a few hundred calls, just live like, just go in with some sort of plan, try to have a conversation. You're going to fumble around, you're going to get nervous, your face is going to get red, You're going to get frustrated. But that's what you're actually training yourself to do is to put yourself in the stress environment, to get used to it so you can start dealing with that and having real conversations that have potential upside and downside.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, if you think about the frustration people have when they they go through a call and, like you get hung up, somebody asked on linkedin the other day they're like, hey, um, just started a job at a brokerage, what? And we're going to answer this question um, on final mile, that will release tuesday but asked like you know, what's the one piece of advice you wish someone gave you? And part of what I said was like don't take it personally if you get hung up. You. And part of what I said was like don't take it personally If you get hung up on, or like, sworn at or reject whatever right, like it's part of it.

Speaker 1:

So like when you go through you know, let's say you say you do a couple dozen calls and you, you like your instinct is to be like man, like that didn't go well. The reality is like, like that didn't go well. The reality is like you're that much closer to like perfecting that. And I think that's the mind shift, mindset shift that you need to to embrace, because you're right, it's going to be a couple hundred, maybe 500 or more calls before you're like all right, I kind of feel comfortable my own skin here.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, it was funny, right, because it's like and again, it's like that, whatever cliche it's like every miss gets you closer to a win, because you're recalibrating, getting a little better to get it closer to that target right. And it's funny because, like what I said to my wife after my lesson yesterday, is my coach wanted to keep stopping and telling me what I was doing wrong in the middle of it and in my head I'm just like dude, just keep hitting more balls at me. Like I understood what you said. I just need to keep trying until I get it. Like you don't need to keep explaining. The words aren't going to help me with the like. The motor skills, right. Like moving your body in a way in the same way. Language, right. Like just us teaching somebody and explaining it. We could spend three days explaining everything we've learned, but all that goes out the window when you put somebody in the environment and they've got to actually put themselves in that situation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, if you read a book that talks through long distance running and strategies of how to like, you know, if you do intervals you'll help increase your pace and if you do longer runs it'll help your cardiovascular system and your breathing long term.

Speaker 1:

For those longer runs, that's great to like read a book on it, but until you get out there and start running and doing intervals and all that like it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1:

Like I remember 10 years ago or so, I I was like all right, I was never like big into running and um, a friend of mine in the army were like, yeah, let's do, um, let's train for half marathon. And so one of the guys in the unit was like really skilled at distance running and created like this plan and kind of like talk me through and coach me through different techniques and all that. But none of that mattered until I went out there and started to run Right, I had to start doing sprints, I had to do two miles and then three miles and then four miles and then five miles and then six and seven, eight, nine, ten, right, like, and until I did that, my body and my mind were not fully developed to be able to do the distance runs, and the same thing goes with really any skill. It's the whole like 10,000 hours of this you know of a skill will help you master it. It's the same thing with making calls. Right, you're going to get to imagine the military's like that voice, what's?

Speaker 2:

that the thing I wanted to ask you. When you brought up the military, like I got to imagine the military trains in a similar way where, like you, shooting a gun in a controlled environment is step one. You may be doing that live with paintball is maybe two. Yeah, but three is like if somebody's literally shooting at you, your adrenaline is going to spike at a completely different rate, your heart rate is going to change. And to practice being in combat versus being in a controlled environment.

Speaker 1:

I got to imagine our worlds apart. Yeah, so there's a to give you an example of, the army has a new weapons qualification system and there's six they call them tables Like table one is your, it's basically like your like levels of the actual training, and there's six tables, um and I'm trying to actually look it up so I don't miss speak here um, I'll just try to go from memory. But basically, like you, you start with like literally classroom instruction and then you have, um preliminary marksman instruction, which is like hands on a rifle that doesn't have any ammunition and you're learning how to clear it, how to operate it properly, how to handle a jam, malfunctions, et cetera. And then you do an electronic training simulator, or EST, electronic simulation training, where it's like an actual, like air powered rifle that you're shooting at a screen and it shoots a laser at it and you can hit the target down. And then you go out to the range and you do like practice with live rounds shooting at targets and then you do a dry run on your actual qualification and then, finally, your final table six is your qualification. So, like that's going through step by step by step.

Speaker 1:

Each time making it you're adding a little bit more to this scenario and, again, all of that is still in a controlled environment, right? So you think about how you break down the steps there, not to mention when you go out to an actual combat environment when you don't know the variables in where they're going to happen, when they're going to happen, how they're going to happen, et cetera. So and this is why I take it back to cold calling is like you're going to happen when they're going to happen, how they're going to happen, et cetera. So, and this is why I take it back to cold calling is like you're going to have.

Speaker 1:

This is actually a great segue into our episode today but like you're going to have different objections, you're going to have different questions that come that you have to field from the customers. You're going to have different scenarios on the shipment different commodities, different times of the year, different regions, different equipment type. Like all this stuff, it takes a lot of time and a lot of repetition to learn it. You can consume our content all day long, but if you don't actually take it and apply it and tweak it to your own personal situation, it's really useless. You're just listening to two guys talk about freight. You've got to take it and apply it.

Speaker 2:

Here's one of the simple ones that I ran into recently. So I seen the uh, the same doctor for something with my back for like six, seven years. And why that's relevant is like I've seen this guy like every two months for a very long period, right. And when I saw him two months ago, in like November, I saw him early in the morning before his day was busy and he was just present with me. And, again, like I know him well enough Now we talk about our kids and have like a conversation like you and I would have, right. And then when I saw him recently, like two weeks ago, I went in the afternoon when there was just a full waiting room. He's got tons of stuff to do and I could feel him stressed and the tone of the conversation, what and what he was willing to talk about and how deep it went, was just like night and day, like went from spending 25 minutes talking about everything and catching up. And then the last one was like I had two and a half minutes to basically let him know what was going on symptoms, blah, blah, blah. He's telling me what you know next steps are, and then I'm out the door.

Speaker 2:

And I was thinking about that and related to our job, because, because it's like, this is someone I have a clear rapport with a long track record with, but even somebody, once you've done all those things, we also always forget the variable of what is that person's life looking like right now when you're calling them? Did that free? Did the shipper you called have a super stressful day where three trucks didn't pick up, his manager yelled at him, someone called off work and his dog was sick this morning. Like you can't control that, that is going to be a different conversation than if you talk to him on a Friday afternoon when his boss took off, everybody showed up for work, every load picked up and he's looking forward to the weekend. Right, there are things you're just not going to be able to know or gauge to your point just in human interactions that come really into play in cold calling.

Speaker 2:

So, like somebody asked, like, can you guys write a perfect script? This is why you can't write one thing to say to everybody, even if they have the same job in every situation, because their days are different. What's going on over there, their needs change, their stress levels, how much they slept that night All of those things affect whether or not they pick up the phone at all, give you 30 seconds to get across what you need to say, or give you five minutes where they give you all the time in the world and they're very nice to you. Sometimes that has nothing to do with what you've done or said. It was just the time and day at which you reached out. That's why it's so important You've got to follow up with the same person, sometimes five or six times. I always say different days of the week, different times of the day. When you catch somebody in a different mood, you will get a different response, regardless of the script or what you're going to say going into it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, that's absolutely right, so, yeah. So let's get really focused here on the getting across the finish line with converting the customer right. So we've talked about lead generation, prospecting, building that rapport I really want to dig into. What does it look like when you have to ask for that first load or you become aware of an opportunity for that first load and you've got to try and figure out how do I price this? What does the market look like right now? So there's a lot that'll go into this.

Speaker 1:

We'll try to hit on as many parts as possible, but I do want to point out that A customer is not just going to offer you business. I mean, you might, you might be offered a load every now and then after you build rapport up, but you really need to take the initiative and ask, and there's multiple different ways that these conversations can go. But a lot of times you know and back to the whole script thing like it's going to be situationally dependent. This is why I'm a big fan of having like bullet points, of like things to ask. You know, just things to be aware of.

Speaker 1:

But it could be, you know, if you're going to go the route of, like I have trucks in the area. Right, and I always kind of joke about this. It could be as simple as hey, I have a driver in your area. Do you have anything going outbound today that you know needs a needs a reefer? Right, I'm asking, right, and that's just one basic, simple way to do it. It could be hey, is there anything on your desk today that you guys are having a big issue with that you would like me to work on? Or, hey, do you guys have any upcoming bids? Or, if you notice, the same thing that's in common about all these is it's me asking for the business and without me saying, can you give me a load, without me saying, can you give me a load? Right, what are your thoughts on other ways that you can ask for the business in that regard?

Speaker 2:

Again. So, like if you've had a few conversations, one, hopefully you've learned these important things. One do they ship full truckload? I can't tell you how many prospects I'd called at first and seen other people call and three, four months later you find out they ship two LTLs a week and you wasted a whole bunch of time so qualifying do they ship full truckload?

Speaker 2:

I always say, like, trying to benchmark, at least 20 loads a week. The reason 20 loads a week, why I've always used it as like normally at about that you probably need a broker at least from time to time because, like, if you got five shipments a week, that person probably can quote and rearrange and recover their own loads with plenty of time without really needing a broker very much. So again, that number is subjective. There are customers I've had that ship less volume and way more. But like trying to understand what that looks like, right, and trying to get to learn a little bit about them, what does the process look like to get onboarded?

Speaker 2:

I'm always asking you know, before I'm going to close, like, hey, like, is it like a decision-making process? Is it like a committee that approves your vendors? Do they go through procurement? Are you the person that can onboard a carrier. Do you guys have an agreement? Even if we're not even talking about working together, that's what I call like a trial close. I'm not asking for the load yet, but I'll usually ask prior to.

Speaker 2:

That is, hey, look like I don't even know if it would be a fit together. But if you wouldn't mind, I'd love to be able to take a look at your agreements just to make sure we've got all the requirements. If you do need something down the road, it's not too much on your end. I'd like to be able to review it, see what you guys are looking for. Make sure we actually could even provide the things you require require of your vendors. Again, it's an easier yes to get before. I'm trying to get freight and to get them to trust me to move their business. It is just getting them used to reciprocation. Can you provide me something that I can take a look at to see if this might be a fit?

Speaker 1:

I'll add in too. Yeah, you made a really good point, because shippers operate differently from each other. It's not like a standard way, but like some shippers operate, uh, differently from each other. It's not like a standard way, but like some shippers have all contra. Like they have a bid, they contract, they award contracts to certain providers and then, um, you know, the only time that they would deviate is if a tender is rejected or you know, maybe something, something is, is unexpected, right.

Speaker 1:

Then you have shippers that are kind of a mix. They might have a set of contracted lanes and then they've got their spot market that pops up daily. Or they get a couple of days in advance based on, you know, purchases or orders that happen outside of their projections. And then you have some where it's like just straight load list, like literally they emailed out every day and it's not like that's not great business long term, but it's not a bad place to start if you're really new, for a quick win is to like that could be your ask like, hey, would you be able to add me to your, your daily load list, right, asking for the business, and that'll get you fast track to the um, the quoting and bidding process that we'll kind of dig through as well. Um, highly competitive, very low margin.

Speaker 1:

You tend to see this stuff in low risk freight because they're not really worried about who they're giving it to, they just care about price. So lumber is like a classic example. Um general building materials like brick, stone, it's really hard to ruin it. It doesn't usually matter if it's delayed by a little bit because it's probably going to like a lumber yard or a wholesale distribution place that that sells these. It could be going to Lowe's Menards like whatever. So those are. But again you got to ask for the business. Can I can?

Speaker 1:

you add me to your your daily load list or your weekly load list, whatever, that looks like and the questions.

Speaker 2:

The way I think about it is like I don't think about the like. We have the list of questions. I think they're on our website. We'll send them to anybody that wants them Like just a comprehensive list of basically almost every question you could think of, and when I started, I literally would just print them out, had them on my desk and when I couldn't think of what to say, I just literally flipped the page, asked one of them and if it worked, I'd highlight it and then I'd just work through until I found the ones that I thought were more effective.

Speaker 2:

But later, the way I approach it now is, I think, like first principles, and all that means is what is the simplest way you can think about this? Because if you can break it down to something simple, you can probably use that over and over again, right? So what we just said is like OK, what I'm trying to understand is what is the decision making process for how you choose a carrier? Right, option one it's a TMS. The only way you get into the TMS is you go through the bid. If you're approved, you're either awarded a lane or maybe you're added to their spot list, but you only get the option to move a load. If someone else rejects it, it kicks you out an email because you're next on the list as you had a higher rate. You can accept it or reject it. That is the only way you're ever going to get freight.

Speaker 2:

The second one, to your point load lists. They're sending out a list of every loads every day or every week. Whoever sends in the cheapest rate, the quickest, with some correlation to service, maybe they'll tender that load to you, right? And then the third one is like hey, they're tendering loads out every day. They're sending quotes out to a few brokers. They'll usually factor in service and price to see who's going to be able to pick it up and get it to where it's supposed to.

Speaker 2:

The next question is okay, what's the process? The other question I always ask is like, okay, like what is the time look like on your tendering loads? And what I always mean by that, and I'll usually have to explain, is like okay, when do the orders hit your desk, nate, and when do you expect to book a truck? Are you getting them the same day that you want to put a truck on it? Like you get the load this morning and you need to book that load to pick up today. Okay, very short time window. Very hard to work with a trucking company Really good for a broker there or you have all your orders last week. You send them all out for some bids. You pick and choose by Thursday. Every load for next week is already booked, and then the ones that don't pick up. You then go to the spot market to find someone else to pick up. Right, because of the short of the, you can start to factor in how they're making this decision.

Speaker 1:

Can I give two examples on the opposite end there, because this is. I want to break this down. This is where commodity matters, right. Lumber is a great example of like they produce a lot, it can ship like daily. They could have, you know, variants because they don't know how much is going to get produced or ordered right, but it's quick production.

Speaker 1:

On the flip side, I've probably used the heat exchanger example in the past. So, like one of the one of the customers used to have they create, they made heat exchangers for various industrial uses. Some of it was actually military for for Navy ships, but the production and the lead time and the production timeline is very long on those. So they know well in advance. The only variance is like, like you know, it's coming well in advance but it's a matter of what day is it actually going to be done and be able to be shipped out. But you, you know like months in advance because they're working on producing this, you know this product, so that those are like like. I just wanted to give two examples there because you know you're absolutely right on that lead time.

Speaker 2:

Those are definitely questions you want to be asking a prospect when you're talking with them on the phone and then to loop back. So let's say it's option one, it's a TMS, we have a bid window. Okay, the next question I want to understand is what does the bid process look like? Do you? Is it a 45 day bid process? Is it one round, two rounds, three rounds? Do you provide feedback? How does the bid process work for you guys? And then what determines if we actually get in? So you can understand as much as possible Is that someone's approval or is that just done based on numbers, whatever rates are? How do you weight those things? Trying to understand the game you're playing in this situation, how does this person that you're talking to make the decisions so you can help to position yourself to be awarded something right?

Speaker 2:

And it's really the same other questions where, like my always, my last question is hey, are there ever scenarios where you've got a lane that ran all the way through your waterfall and nobody picked it up? Do you ever make exclusions where you need somebody outside your system to move a load because it just the system failed, and that happens Like maybe I wouldn't say system fail, but like hey, nobody's accepted a load, what happens to it? Then They'll usually say like oh, I've got a list of some other trusted brokers that have been reaching out to us for a year or two. I'll give them a shot. If they can move it, I'll get an exclusion, my boss will sign off and we can get you into our system in the middle of the year.

Speaker 2:

So that was always a way for us when I used to work at a big brokerage. Even if you couldn't get in a big bid, you knew there was an occasional time where a load might come through in a distribution list, where Occasional time where a load might come through in a distribution list where if you could go and get a truck on it very quickly, that you would get that waiver. And now you're in the system. Now you're getting access to the waterfalls sometimes bid portals that you just didn't have access to if you didn't get in the first time.

Speaker 1:

So there are multiple ways to try to close that one or to be able to thread the needle to find an opportunity to slip in the door, if you will the needle to find an opportunity to slip in the door, if you will yeah, I'll add into the market and where, like on a macro level and on a micro level, is very impactful on how this stuff happens. Like we saw, routing got right, routing guides just collapse during the COVID boom. Right, and what I mean there is when I say routing guide, I mean, let's say, someone went through a bid. They've got, you know, this carrier for carrier number one was awarded the bid. If they rejected, carrier two gets offered the bid. If they reject, to carry three and so on. Right.

Speaker 1:

And eventually, when, when demand went through the roof and the supply couldn't meet up with it, rates elevated because you know it's like if you want my truck, you're going to pay for it. You know it's like if you want my truck, you're going to pay for it. So, literally, trucks that the carriers that were contracted loads were basically saying like, no, man, I'm not going to take that to two dollar a mile. Like, you know, shipment, I want to go chase this three, fifty four dollar a mile. One, and the routing collapse. So, understanding where the market's at and having that conversation with the shippers to like, hey, you know how do you guys handle situations when you know X, y and Z happens right. And, like we've said before a lot of times, a traffic manager might not be someone that's very sophisticated or very knowledgeable of the freight market, where it's at, where it might be heading, to, the things that impact it and whatnot. So your ability to educate them, talk through those and kind of like probe to see how, how, what would need to be true for you to be a value add, you know transportation provider for them, right.

Speaker 1:

And then I want to add in like the repetition is really where a lot of this stuff happens, is really where a lot of this stuff happens and a lot of this comes back with fall. But if you're calling you know eight, 10, a dozen times to a customer checking in to see how their operation's going, did anything slip through the cracks that they need you to work on? Or hey, maybe you've got a truck in the area or whatever you want to say that you know is there a fit for that? You know a shipment for that truck when that time comes up, that they do have a situation where you might become, you know, a value add and you are calling them that day. That's like a win-win.

Speaker 1:

I've even had a situation where, like, I get the call because I've made 15, 20 calls you know previously. Right, and it's that pleasant persistence without being annoying. Right, you are very clearly the top, if not one of the top, the top person in their mind that they can go to when all else fails, and you multiply this out over hundreds of prospects in your pipeline. This is where you finally get to turn that one stone, where there's a nugget underneath it. So and the way I've always thought of this too is, like you, finally, get to turn that one stone where there's a nugget underneath it.

Speaker 2:

So, and the way I've always thought of this too is like you kind of need both right, like you've said everyone's heard of the shave like it's when was it? Um, when opportunity meets effort, it's what luck looks like. Right, and like I thought about that when I was trying to learn to surf last year. Because, like you could be really good at that, but if there's no waves coming in in, there's not much you can do. And vice versa, there could be lots of waves and if you didn't practice, you're not going to do very well either. You really kind of need both, and the market does have waves in it.

Speaker 2:

So in some instances you might be talking to a prospect for three or four months, building good rapport, and they might just be like look man, everything's good, like all our stuff's picking up, we've got good service. But if something does arise, we'll let you know. Right, and sometimes you just kind of have to wait for that wave to meet the effort you put in, and when they do to your point, they call you out of the blue. You get an email hey, I'm jammed up on this load. If you can give me a hand. I'd love to be able to work with you and all of a sudden, opportunities just start to arise, like where did all these come from?

Speaker 2:

Well, it came from all the phone calls you put in that you thought didn't do anything. But you also had to be a little patient, right, yeah, and like a practical way that you can do this and I did this one recently. So in Genlogs I can use shipper insights to see lanes that shippers move. Well, I always look for markets that shift drastically, because through the holidays we saw a lot of this. Like one of the lanes I think it was like Detroit, to like Savannah, a similar lane right that lane was hitting like 350 to 450 a mile in the afternoons. Now it wasn't that in the morning, but you could tell the market was tightening up, not as many carriers wanted to go there.

Speaker 2:

So when I was speaking to shippers that move that lane, I didn't say, hey, I know what's happening. Do you want to learn this? I'm like, hey, I'm just curious, like we've seen a lot of movement on a few of these lanes. Curious, if you guys move it, are you guys moving a lot of like the Michigan to Georgia area much? And they might have said, yeah, you know we move at time to time. Hey, just curious. Have you guys run into any capacity issues on that lane and again, if I've talked to them twice, they're almost always going to tell me no, even if it's true, because they're just they don't know me enough to give me the truth. But then I just go. Hey, the reason I was bringing that up is like we've seen some huge market moves on that lane on Tuesdays and Thursdays after Thanksgiving where that rate went from like two bucks a mile to like 450 in the afternoon.

Speaker 2:

And I don't know if you get your loads picked up mostly in the morning or you book them ahead of time, but just giving you a heads up if you guys are moving, that like that's something to keep an eye out for. But hey, like I said, it was nice catching up with you. Maybe down the road there'll be some opportunity for us to connect, but and then I'll literally get out of that call. I left him with that thought right in the back of his mind where he's thinking well, we do move that lane and I haven't really seen it, but I've seen my loads pick up a little slower or get moved to the next day more frequently. Right Now that starts to happen a little bit more Now, even in the back of his mind when I follow back up and ask that follow-up question a week or two later he's more inclined to tell me a little bit more of the truth because I'm providing value in the insight of the market that he's not going to see from his point of view.

Speaker 2:

We'll see that as brokers or even as a dispatcher on the carrier side, but a shipper is usually only going to be able to see like lane averages. They might see overall lane averages change, but they're not going to see drastic fluctuations in the market that we see covering freight from eight in the morning to five at night. Those are the things that you can bring into these phone calls to help build rapport and to show them like you're not just asking for a load. You can actually provide value to their supply chain.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, you're precisely right. So I mean literally in a like, in a nutshell here it's the persistence and having to ask for the business that's going to eventually get you to the opportunity. Once you've put the calls and you've built the rapport, you're asking the right questions. It's a very generalized formula that we're giving you, but it somewhat like applies to all of the situations. So, as far as getting to the quoting part of it, we'll probably have to do a part four on this series because we dug deep on this one. But really I want to kind of like give you the, the preview of what the next step looks like.

Speaker 1:

So customer get says you know what, hey, here's this one that I've got an issue with today and I'll just make it up. Let's say I've got, you know, we're, we're shipping out of um chattanooga. We're trying to get this to Birmingham Drive in right now. You got to think, ok, how do I quote this? How do I even find a carrier? What are the requirements for it? How much time do I have? And this is where you get to the next part, where, if you do all the right things up to this point and then you fail at your first, take at it. You've just taken like 10 steps backwards.

Speaker 2:

You might have just been one of the entire relationship Right.

Speaker 1:

So what I caution people on is if the one load that you're offered is truly something that you aren't comfortable working on like if they're going to give you an oversized hazmat load and you're a new broker like I'd probably be like, hey, you know, I appreciate it, that's not something that I you're a new broker like I'd probably be like, hey, you know, I appreciate it, that's not something that I you know that I specialize in I'd probably do you more harm than good Sometimes. That honesty and pushing it back will get you a step further with your rapport and trust with them.

Speaker 2:

Anything else you want to add on this part, because I do want to give the actual quoting part a full, deep dive on an episode, yeah we'll do that next week, and I think it's a good draw line, because this is what I feel should precede the quoting, and I feel like this is the part that's missed that we talked about in this episode Really asking questions to at least understand the situation a little better than looking at a lane and trying to throw your cheapest rate out because you don't want to pick up the phone and you just want to send an email because it's easier, right, see far more of that with newer brokers than developing the skill, which takes hard work and overcoming fear, which is picking up the phone and having conversations to learn a little bit more about the load. But the other thing is, when you practice this, even though it is harder and it is scarier, right, and you will be more frustrated, you will gain so many more valuable customers over the long run. But, more importantly, when we cover the next piece, this is where you're going to get feedback into determining how to price it. Do you need to be below market? Do you need to be at market? Can you be a little bit above market when you're going to pick on a pricing metric to send? This rate is based on the information you can only get through a conversation.

Speaker 2:

A customer or shipper is never going to email you these details about how they make that decision.

Speaker 2:

They're never going to email you their target rates and if they do, you can be assured they're bullshit, like they're not true.

Speaker 2:

Those are their wishful hope for pay rates. Right, and until you can have those conversations and actually start to talk to them and get some of this info, your success rate when we get to the numbers part is going to be abysmal. I mean, I've seen some exceptions of this. Like there's a guy I work with now, like he's like legit rain man, where he can see markets and days of the week where he knows he can pay a little less because he knows equipment needs to get there on certain days where he can very consistently quote below market and still win and cover the loads. But you are talking at something that was developed over years and years of covering loads all day long, quoting hundreds of loads every day. Like that is developable, but it's not something you're just going to be able to do in a few days. However, you can do this with information and feedback from the person you're negotiating with to find ways that are win-wins where you can actually be awarded the load.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Yeah, I look, I'm looking forward to talking to the quoting part there's there's so much that goes into it and it's not always just giving them one price. You got options right, so we'll get into that in the next episode. But any final thoughts here.

Speaker 2:

Whether you believe you can or believe you can't.

Speaker 1:

You're right, and until next time, go Bills.

People on this episode

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Benjamin Kowalski

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Nate Cross

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